[Jbird]

Where is the best info on learning to guage for unmarked FITA Field. I would like to try it but there are so few opportunities to try this form of Archery in the North East that I don't know how one becomes proficient at it. I understand that there are systems for guaging targets. Which one is the best and easiest to learn?
Thanks,
Jbird

[GRIV]

That would be a good question for CHPro.

I hear he has a great system. How do you do it Jeff?

[aussiearcher]

GRIV, on Mar 7 2006, 03:06 PM, said:

That would be a good question for CHPro.

I hear he has a great system. How do you do it Jeff?

yeh Jeff....come on!! were all waiting

Cheers

[Marcus]

James Park has an excellent system in Mastering Compound Bows. All you need todo is learn one distance and then you can hit any of them with ease.

[CHPro]

Gauging, what's that? I just look at the target and number pops up in my head................yeah right, if I could do that I might actually think about trying those foamie animal targets for a change of pace, lol!

I'm sure my technique is nowhere as simple as Mr. Parks, but it is reasonbly easy and doesn't take too much work. I know some techniques make use of aligning the edge of the target in the scope (while at full draw) and then making note of where on the target your dot lies. I'll tell ya, if you use a 7x or 8x scope like I do then good luck with this one because it means you can hold far steadier than I can! Therefore I like to use something outside the scope lens for my alignments, like say the lines on a fairly wide scope bubble maybe . If one were to try this technique I'd suggest aligning the right line on the bubble with the right edge of the target and then observe where the left line sits on the target face in relation to the bullseye. After that its just a matter of practicing different distances. And even here I can suggest a simpler way than practicing every distance. Myself for example, on the 80cm target face I know the target is between 35m-55m (or should be anyway !). Therefore I practice looking at where 40yd, 45yd, 50yd, 55yd and 60yd appear. I have to use yards, can't think in meters and my sight tapes stay in yards even when shooting metric - I just take a conversion chart with me for the marked round. Draw a picture, makes it easy to visualize when not actually practicing on a target. Usually for my draw, etc. the left line of a level runs just about through the center of the spot at 40, edge at 45, 1/3 off the spot in the black at 50, 2/3's across black at 55 and just inside the edge of the black at 60. Therefore I know 1/2 way across the black on the 80cm is going to be right around 52-53 yards. With a reasonably quick set-up if you are within a yard on the guesstimate you should be in the spot, assuming you make a good shot, lol! Similar for the 60cm, I know that target has to be within 20m-35m so I learn what 25yd, 30yd, 35yd and 40yd look like. For me anyway I find these gaps are not that much unlike what I see on the 80cm so it really cuts down on what gaps you have to learn. For the 40cm which has to be between 15m-25m I usually go a little differently and learn what max (approx 27.5yd) and medium (approx 22yd) look like. If any closer I hope I can guess just by eyesight.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell for me. Of course all views are done while at full draw - looking like you are actually aiming at the target. I usually draw up a couple times just to make sure I look at the target the same both times. Also, watch out for host clubs that do not put the targets square to the shooting positions. If angled you are going to have to make some adjustments to your guess because the lines will cover more target space and call for a longer distance than is really the case. I believe general rules call for the targets to be placed square but there is one club I've run across (cough, OH, cough, cough) that likes to "fool" with the archers trying to use systems (old European tricks). Wouldn't hurt to also have a back-up general system that guages off the bottom/top of the target as well.

Hardest part of the systems is making sure you have the right target on the 60cm and 80cm shots. For these some judgement is needed. Pay attention to the size of the target butts (if consistent, watch out for planned "trap" where the host club uses a smaller size target butt and places the 60cm on it at max making it appear like it may be the 80cm) and observe how much space the target takes up on the butt. Even pay attention to people standing next to the target butt on shots where you can see from the waiting area - usually a dead give-away as to the target size. Also pay attention to how many of what size targets you've already shot. Sometimes helpful to know that if you've already shot 6-80cm on a 24 target course then that tunnel shot that looks like an 80cm out at 45m (approx 50yd) is more likely a 60cm at the 35m (38.5yd) max. A good pair of high power binos can even help sometimes in reading the 60cm label in the corner of the target face. Also observe what targets the host is using, you may notice a slight yet noticeable difference in how much space the logo writing takes up along the edge. Even helpful if following a group of recurve archers, to listen to how long it takes their arrows to reach the target. Thing about the guaging system is that the max on the 60cm is going to be just shy of 40yd while max showing on the 80cm will be around 60yd. You can definitely tell by listening to the recurvers if the target is 40 vs. 60yd away, lol!

Last thing I can think of that I do is also practice some longer shots with my sight intentionally mis-set. For example, I will stand at 55yd and then see where my point of impact is when I set my sights for 50yd and 60yd. Likewise for 4, 3, 2 and 1 yd offsets. On occasion my eyesight tends to play some tricks with me and that first guess may not be right on. Hard to aim off the spot with a high power lens so I like to know how much I misguessed so I can clean up on the next two shots and not give up even more points. Some, like Reo I believe, just aim off the opposite direction. Tough for me to do that though because if I'm off on the edge of the 4-ring with the first shot there is no way I'm going to see anything but black as I try to aim off the opposite side, lol!

About all I can think of off top of my head right now. The person with the most impressive system I've seen is Cousin Dave. I'm pretty certain his system is good enough that he can tell if the targets on the marked are mis-marked as well. Must be the eyesight or something. I don't hold steady enough and am 1/2 blind so I need to go with a little less precise system when I play the game than what some use. But given the size of the spot, I only need to be within a yard or so to hit it and can then adjust accordingly. Assuming the first shot is a good one, lol! Gets a little harder to adjust for the first arrow when you have to take into consideration the dropped bowarm factor, etc., etc., and its affect on the impact point, lol

Hope any of this helps. FITA field is lot of fun, even the unmarked. Especially fun when you get a course that is set up on severe terrain where you have to also then take into consideration major yardage cuts, etc..

Good luck and enjoy.

>>------>

[Bruce]

Thanks Jeff , thats a great system , but why not just dump the unmarked and set up a second round like the hunters in IFAA or NFAA

Bruce

[Marcus]

I think it's a shame to see unmarked FITA field get pushed out. We don't even shoot it in Australia anymore. Yet it's an excellent game.

Great post CHPro.

[Sean McKenty]

We don't shoot it in Canada either, at our Nationals we shoot 2 marked Fita Fields.Getting someone to set up a field round itself is hard enough let alone getting an unmarked set up were nobody complains of someone haveing a home field advantage..

IMO I think the unmarked is kinda pointless with all the system you can use,don't get me wrong I think it is fun just pointless to a World event. I like the elimination format and think that the Target should be run the same way but leave the unmaked to the 3-D champs

[mecrowe]

Thanks for he insight, ice cream man! I'm buying in Pittsburgh this year!

I have never shot a Fita Field, unmarked or marked, but it seems to me that it isn't so much about guessing the distance as it is learning a system and practicing that. Personally, I would rather shoot my bow than practice a yardage gauging system. Now the pictures of Fita Field courses that I have seen do look very interesting with some extreme angles, and sidehills. Certainly looks like fun to me!

--mc

[T.L. Williams]

Great post Jeff.

But this unmarked game sounds too much like the reason I quit 3d. I'm like mecrowe, I want to shoot my arrows, just tell me how far and where to point and I'm good to go.

Oh, and I owe you some ice cream in Pittsburgh as well.

[exactly]

The Unmarked round in FITA field is largely appreciated here in Europe. All our FITA field shoots are either a combination round, (mix of 12 marked and 12 unmarked) or 1 day unmarked followed by a day of marked. Some shoots are purely unmarked... We have one in France that is a single day shoot on a THURSDAY, all unmarked and the event is oversubscribed every year! We also have the European 5 nations shoots throughout the year, each with 2 courses and every shoot is over subscribed months in advance, it is not unusual to have 250+ archers at each event and all this with unmarked targets. I think you guys in the US are missing a trick

Removing the unmarked element of the round would kill off field archery totally here in Europe. Lets put it this way, it is what separates the great field archers from the good ones, the systems are an integral part of the game, it is especially challenging at the longer distances, where the differences between 45-50 and 55m are tiny on most systems, so judging the distance is a real skill.

Have a look at the www.5nations.org website or the www.fieldarcher.org one... We have a really strong community of Field archers over here, every event is great fun and a real challenge. If you want to come and visit sometime, give me a shout and I'll suggest which shoots to go to where to stay etc.

Tim

[SuperX]

My two cents is that there is nothing about the unmarked part of FITA Field that should worry anyone. In fact it is really this part of the NAA Field game that makes such a unique and intense archery experience. Learning a system is really quite simple and Jeff Button and John Dudley have combined to put together 99% of what is needed to be really good at this. Even if you only get half good at a system, the 5 rings are quite generous and provide ample opportunity to get lucky.

When I was learning my system I took a blank target face for each distance to the range, and when I was sighting at the target from different distances, I wrote the mark on the blank face I had with me for where my reference mark hit on the real target and how many meters I was from it. (a sliver paint pen and a black sharpie work well for this) Marking a face for each distance let me take my system home and study it. For example, if you use the two lines on your bubble to judge the face, and your left line is on the edge of the 1 ring, simply mark where the right line hits on the target and the meters. Walk back and take a "snapshot" of that site picture on your blank target face every 5 meters or so until you cover the entire distance that face could be deployed at.

The main faces/distances you will want to be careful of are the 60 cm at 35 meters and the 80 cm at 35 meters. They cam overlap in distance and even be inverted (80cm closer than 60cm) because FITA allows +/- 2 meters when setting targets. I suggest spending time getting more granular marks for these two faces at these distances and see if there is some way to ID which face is being used for your system. CHPro has some good ideas as far as counting up the targets you have shot already, watching the other archers pull their arrows, etc.

Another trick I picked up was to keep a copy of the rules with me. I discarded most of the pages but kept the part that explained how many of each target were shot, and (here is the trick now) what distances the stakes were at. When I found myself totally confused, I looked at the blue stakes (recurve) and knowing how close to the target they had to be I was able to eliminate a target face. It then became obvious which face it had to be and I knew what system to apply.

Remember when you toss in some terrain, things will get more confusing and you will have to depend on your system. Don't try to "judge yardage" - the system is wise, the system is good - trust the system!

As you pull back and sight at the target for the first time, you run the risk of a misfire or broken loop sending the arrow off into the night. I like to guestimate what the target looks to be and set my sight at that distance so that if the worst happens and I 'autopilot' and trigger one off that I would at least hit the paper. Other people don't like this idea because they feel it can cause you to question your system, but I don't have that issue. YMMV on this

If you are feeling ultra competitive, make sure you come up with something to block your site marks. A strip of velcro along the both sides of your CJ scale will help make sure your competitors are not able to read your marks and get a clue to what distance the target is.

FITA Field is perhaps the most demanding and technical discipline in archery today - it combines all of the aspects of archery into one format. I believe if you try it, you will find yourself hooked like me!

Shoot Great!

[rchr]

It is sad to see that the FITA Hunter side has given way to allow gauging. How this happened or why it was allowed, I don't know but it does make me sad that such a challenging aspect of the tournament was erased. Gauging adds a different challenge but it just somehow seems that I have been robbed of something. Here in Texas last I heard the FITA Field shoots have just skipped the unmarked side.

[SuperX]

rchr, on Apr 25 2006, 10:31 AM, said:

It is sad to see that the FITA Hunter side has given way to allow gauging. How this happened or why it was allowed, I don't know but it does make me sad that such a challenging aspect of the tournament was erased. Gauging adds a different challenge but it just somehow seems that I have been robbed of something. Here in Texas last I heard the FITA Field shoots have just skipped the unmarked side.

Believe me it is not lost - the courses are ultra challenging and even with guaging you are stretched to your max to shoot a 5 on many of the targets. Plus, your system could be "judging yardage" and you would not lose anything. I shot the unmarked with an archer who did that and he shot quite well

[exactly]

rchr, on Apr 25 2006, 07:31 PM, said:

It is sad to see that the FITA Hunter side has given way to allow gauging. How this happened or why it was allowed, I don't know but it does make me sad that such a challenging aspect of the tournament was erased. Gauging adds a different challenge but it just somehow seems that I have been robbed of something. Here in Texas last I heard the FITA Field shoots have just skipped the unmarked side.

It is not a case of "allowing" gauging, it is more that the officials have little way of reliably enforcing the ruling, which is one of the reasons why FITA have tried to remove the unmarked round in the past. However the strong resistance to this from Europe has stopped them. If you are a top field archer especially in the compound division, you must be using a gauging system of some sort otherwise you would be at a significant disadvantage.

Personally I would like the ruling to be changed to simply prohibiting the use of electronic/mechanical range finders for measuring the distance. This would simplify the issue, and stop the "secrecy" that goes along with having a "system"!

The challenge of estimation is certainly part of the field craft and I mirror SuperX's opinion that FITA field is technically the most demanding discipline in our sport today.

[SuperX]

SuperX, on Apr 25 2006, 09:53 AM, said:

The main faces/distances you will want to be careful of are the 60 cm at 45 meters and the 80 cm at 50 meters. While they technically do not overlap in distance, because FITA allows +/- 2 meters when setting targets, they could be within a meter. I suggest spending time getting more granular marks for these two distances and see if there is some way to ID which face is being used for your system. CHPro has some good ideas as far as counting up the targets you have shot already, watching the other archers pull their arrows, etc.

I actually had the distance wrong on this - I was looking at the wrong table. There is an overlap on the unmarked between the 60 and 80cm faces at 35 meters. This means that technically the 80cm face can be closer to you than the 60cm face as there is that slight fudge factor of 2 meters +/-.

There is no overlap on the marked course - sorry for the bad advice

[Desert Archer]

I'm new here but would like to support exactly's point. I've shot in three of our State FITA Field toruneys (Barebow Recurve) and feel it is one of the most challenging of the archery indevers. Vitorio Frangilli says in "The Heritic Archer" that indoor is like pre-school, the 900 round is like elementry school, FITA is high school and Field is the university of archery.

Dave

[Charly Rei..]

Hi to everybody,

FITA Field Archery is one f the most challenging styles to shoot.
Especially in Europe / Austria, the high Mountains grant for a lot of steep uphill and downhill hoots.
I love it to play this game.
About the unmarked round: many Fieldshooters discuss this but if the unmarked round will be canceled we all would miss something....
The Problem on the unmarked round is - if there are two shooters wich have the same skill in shooting - the better onewill be the shooter with the best measuring system.
So you allways have to look that your system is well working to hit the 6 or 5 with your first shoot.

Many Archers have sometime problems with the 80 and 60cm facees. In some tricky cases there could be that you mistaken the 80 with the 60cm face or vice versa.
This could produce high or low zeros ( a miss).
A great tip to prevent this is to look at the butt numbering system - there allways must be square shaped signs with target numbers ( Target 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8...........22,23,24) and these signs must have the same measurement.
If you have checked this out - the size of the sign in proportion to the yellow of the 80 and 60 faces you never would mistaken again.

I hope this hint is useful........

Best greatings from Austria to all Archers around.

Charly

[PSI@Work]

Software For Archers has a simulation screen that allows you to practice "gauging".

You enter the size of the "obscuring object" you use to gauge or use the pin gap on a multi-pin sight. The default size is 0.25"..about the dimension of the nylon lense knobs on a SAP scope.

You calibrate the target top to bottom or left to right by clicking on the target borders. This tells the program the target dimensions.

You calibrate and apply how much of the "obscuring object" covers the target by clicking on the target where the top and bottom of the object covers. Lining the clicks up with obvious scoring rings or dot.

Click calculate to see the distance.

[SuperX]

PSI@Work, on May 21 2009, 03:49 PM, said:

Software For Archers has a simulation screen that allows you to practice "gauging".

You enter the size of the "obscuring object" you use to gauge or use the pin gap on a multi-pin sight. The default size is 0.25"..about the dimension of the nylon lense knobs on a SAP scope.

You calibrate the target top to bottom or left to right by clicking on the target borders. This tells the program the target dimensions.

You calibrate and apply how much of the "obscuring object" covers the target by clicking on the target where the top and bottom of the object covers. Lining the clicks up with obvious scoring rings or dot.

Click calculate to see the distance.

Larry that is an awesome trick for OT2 to deliver! I'll have to check it out!